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Conservative and Unionist Party

5,804 spoken contributions under 12 words (interjections such as “Will the hon. Member give way?”) are hidden. Show them

  1. ParliamentMr Gagan Mohindra

    Business and the Economy

    I will let the new Member make his political point. The only thing I will say in response is that in my first two years in Parliament, we dealt with a global pandemic, in which we spent more than £400 billion of taxpayers’ money. When I was elected in December 2019, as part of an 80-seat majority, we were looking to reform our tax base and the way we financed our Government spending, but we did not have that opportunity. With the Government’s current majority, I hope that they are ambitious. Other Members have spoken about business rates reform. It is massively outdated to look at businesses based on bricks and mortar, and if I were a furniture retailer today, I would have an online presence only. However, that would mean that the vibrancy of our high streets would be lost, because they would end up with only bookmakers, hairdressers, charity shops and coffee shops. There is nothing wrong with those, but the high streets that I support and am honoured to be the Member of Parliament for offer significant diversity; we have not yet spoken about banking and the move away from on-street branches, but we are trying to deal with that issue locally through places such as post offices becoming banking hubs. There was a reference earlier to HMRC—and my remarks in this regard are a pitch to the Minister. From my limited experience over the years, HMRC has become increasingly aggressive and not necessarily fair, including in regard to interest rates. If an employer or business makes an overpayment, the interest rate that they receive is different from that which HMRC takes. We should not regard businesses as a cash cow if they have done nothing wrong. I will leave that with the Minister. Further, I would prefer HMRC not to be an arm’s length body; I would be willing at least to investigate whether ministerial control and oversight was practical, on the full understanding that civil servants need to have the freedom to raise and collect revenue. In Hertfordshire, the median weekly wage is £851, which is higher than the UK average of £728. However, with inflation rising—we heard overnight that it is now at 3.5%—and the rising cost of living, people are feeling poorer, which means that they are spending less on our high streets and are less likely to use capital expenditure on their homes, on a new car or on whatever else they would have spent it on if they felt more flush with cash.

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  2. ParliamentMr Gagan Mohindra

    Business and the Economy

    That is an excellent point. I have a plea to Government. Perversely, reducing tax rates sometimes increases the amount of money received in the coffers. I say that as a retailer. When VAT was reduced to 15%, it allowed me the certainty to expand our furniture business; we secured another outlet, employed more people and paid more business rates. In effect, it was a win-win for both the state and for our small business. We have spoken about NICs, but the Employment Rights Bill also causes me massive concerns. I would now think twice about the risks that I would have taken hiring a 16 to 18-year-old, because it would cost me the same to employ someone in their 30s or 40s as to employ a first-jobber. There is a ticking time bomb for people leaving university or college in the summer. Where are they going to work? We have spoken about the 100,000 fewer jobs over the last 12 months; that will only get worse when those people finish their degrees, A-levels, BTECs and so on, and cannot get into employment. That is going to affect the Minister’s workings. We on the Conservative Benches will be fully supportive of the Government if they do the right thing. Our role in this place is to be critical friends because we all want—

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  3. ParliamentMr Gagan Mohindra

    Business and the Economy

    Well, I have been listening; I spend a lot of time in the Chamber. Yes, there is an element of Punch and Judy, but the reality is that there are 650 of us here who want great legislation to support our communities and make sure that people can get on with their daily lives without the burden of having to think about legislation. They want us to get on with it on their behalf. On tax rises, we have seen the leak of the Deputy Prime Minister’s letter to the Chancellor. I remain concerned that any ambition to increase taxes is another death by a thousand cuts for our small businesses. We need certainty and support from this Government, saying to people, “Go and be ambitious.” If people are risk-averse, there will be a structural problem for us on our high streets and for our small businesses. That means that we will not create the world’s next unicorn because those ambitious people will already have left our country to generate their income in a better financial climate, typically in the middle east or other parts of Europe.

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  4. ParliamentMr Gagan Mohindra

    Business and the Economy

    I have always thought that business rates were totally outdated. They generate a significant amount of money for the Treasury, so it is resistant to reform without knowing for certain how it will fill that significant black hole. We have not spoken about hospices and the effects of NICs increases on the charity sector. Others have spoken about the winter fuel allowance. All these things affect our most vulnerable individuals, and the community groups and charities that fill a massive void that the state or the private individual do not. My worry, which is increasing, is that we are doing things that will have unintended but significant consequences. We chose this subject for debate to ensure that the Government heard loud and clear from across the House that where they do the right thing, we will support them, and where they need to adjust their direction of travel—I will not say “U-turn”—we will support them. It benefits no one, and provides no benefit to our communities, if we just chuck political grenades. I will end my remarks on the loss of business confidence. Small businesses are closing, investors are leaving, inflation is rising and confidence is collapsing. I know that there is a direct lack of business experience on the Treasury Bench, but that is neither here nor there. I know that there are various economists, think-tankers and so on in the Minister’s party, but I urge him to listen to those who run businesses of whatever shape or size, because that life experience brings them value in this place. My hon. Friend the Member for Broadland and Fakenham (Jerome Mayhew) created a business that employs 1,000 people. That is real life experience; he knows how the Government’s decisions would have influenced the projections and ambitions of his business. I know from my continuing conversations with businesses that they are looking to shrink and be secure rather than expand and be ambitious. That is not what the UK is about; we are outward-looking and globally ambitious. I wish the Government success in getting to that point.

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  5. ParliamentMr Andrew Snowden

    Immigration

    The hon. Member just referred to the Government as equivalent to the fire brigade turning up to put out a fire. Given the Government’s track record since coming into office, does he agree that it would be fair to say that they brought petroleum to put out the fire, not water?

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  6. ParliamentMr Andrew Snowden

    Immigration

    It does not matter how many times the Prime Minister repeats and repeats his vacuous election slogan of “smash the gangs”, there is no plan to do it, it is not happening and nobody out there believes him. The Government had an opportunity when they came to office. The Rwanda scheme was on the brink of becoming operational, which would have given them one of the most robust deterrents in Europe. As we saw in Australia, when a scheme similar to Rwanda was set up in the Pacific, it only had to deport the first few thousand and it had the impact of largely stopping the boats arriving—but in a callous, irresponsible and purely political move, Labour cancelled the Rwanda scheme. It is a political calculation that the Government have got entirely wrong, as without a deterrent everything else they announce or say is just words. The Government have had nearly a year to show us they had more up their sleeve on immigration than buzzwords and crocodile-tear outrage about the scheme—so, how is that going? Since the election, almost 36,000 illegal immigrants crossed the channel, a 30% increase on the same period 12 months prior. To date, 2025 has been the worst ever year for small boat crossings, with around 12,000 arrivals. That surge in numbers has led to Labour already breaking its manifesto promise to end the use of asylum hotels. Figures show that on 31 December 2024, there were 8,000 more people in asylum hotels than when the Conservatives left office. The Government have been clutching at straws for good news. They started off by holding a press conference to celebrate the arrest of one member of just one gang—out of the thousands of criminals involved in the illegal immigration trade—to show they were smashing the gangs. If that was not enough of a laughable spectacle in its own right, the investigation had mainly been undertaken before they came to office and such arrests are a matter of course anyway. More recently, they have switched to triumphantly claiming 24,000 deportations. Time and again, even at Prime Minister’s questions today, the Prime Minister has refused to outline how many of those are just routine and voluntary removals, rather than enforced deportations of people who have illegally crossed the channel.

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  7. ParliamentMr Andrew Snowden

    Immigration

    It did not start. The scheme was not even operational. That is like buying a car, waiting until it gets to the showroom and then claiming that only the showroom manager is driving it, so it is not worth the money. It is a ridiculous thing to say. We hear vacuous slogans, empty words—quite apt—cooked up stats and a Prime Minister unable to answer the most basic of questions; he is now not only reduced to begging other countries to give him options to provide a safe country to deport to, but he is publicly getting slapped down by the leaders he is asking. The return hubs he is now so desperately trying to set up are only a watered-down version of the Rwanda scheme. Even more worryingly, not only have they shot themselves in the foot by cancelling Rwanda; in launching their new border security Bill, they have not realised that without a deterrent it is all just words.

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  8. ParliamentMr Andrew Snowden

    Immigration

    The hon. Member would have to ask my right hon. Friend. The only tangible elements of the Bill are: a Border Security Commander with no powers other than writing a report and setting some objectives; and new powers to confiscate phones from people who arrive illegally, missing the fact that most of the them discard their phones to hide their identity anyway. Notably, the Bill repeals lots of the Illegal Migration Act 2023, lifting the requirement for the Government to remove people who arrive here illegally and allowing illegal migrants a path to citizenship. Let us be clear: there should be no route to citizenship for anyone who arrives in this country illegally. France is a safe country, and to get to France—let alone the UK—people will have had to pass through many other safe countries. Everyone who arrives in small boats across the channel or in lorries from the continent is arriving from a safe country and should therefore qualify for immediate deportation. These are not asylum claims; it is illegal immigration. As much as I would like to take up all the time in this debate—and more—talking about the ludicrously weak and counterproductive policies of this Government, by the time I finished, many more small boats would have crossed the channel. I would rather spare the Minister the time, and hope the Government spend it instead correcting some of their mistakes. We have outlined some provisions in our Bill that would help, including: disapplying the Human Rights Act from immigration matters; a requirement to deport all foreign criminals regardless of human rights claims; the introduction of a scientific age assessment technique when an illegal immigrant is trying to pretend they are over 18; a requirement to impose visa sanctions on countries that do not take back their own citizens; and increasing the period to qualify for indefinite leave to remain from five years to 10. I live in hope, though—for the sake of our national security, the confidence of the British public in our immigration system, and to reduce the strain on our public services—that the Prime Minister picks up the phone to his opposite number in Rwanda, apologises for the disrespectful way he treated their country and begs to get the deal back on the table. However, I think it will take a few more years of repeating empty slogans, dodging difficult questions, and holding press conferences every time there is an arrest of a single person out of the thousands involved in the illegal immigration trade, before the Prime Minister realises that instead of smashing the gangs, he is making everything worse, and that it is time to pick up the phone to Rwanda again.

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  9. ParliamentMike Wood

    Veterans: Legal Protections

    I strongly support the petition brought forward by my right hon. Friend the Member for Goole and Pocklington (David Davis). As of this morning, it has more than 90,000 signatures, showing the strength of public feeling on this issue. Almost a year ago, the Labour party published its manifesto, saying that it would scrap the legacy Act, yet it has still presented no alternative. Victims are in limbo, and veterans are in limbo. The last Labour Government handed out letters of comfort for terrorists, but nothing for elderly veterans. When will the Secretary of State finally show the House his plans, and how can veterans have confidence that they will get the protection they deserve?

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  10. ParliamentLewis Cocking

    Engagements

    Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 21 May.

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  11. ParliamentLewis Cocking

    Engagements

    This Labour Government have been in power now for almost 12 months. When will the Prime Minister stop defying the will of the British people, stop dancing around the subject, and stop all illegal immigration into the United Kingdom, which has been rising on his watch?

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  12. ParliamentKatie Lam

    Immigration

    As my right hon. Friend, the shadow Home Secretary, rightly said earlier, migration has been too high for decades and remains so. In every year since 1997, with the unsurprising exception of 2020, net migration was over 100,000 people. Every election-winning manifesto since 1974 has promised to reduce migration. Successive Governments of both parties have promised to end the era of mass migration and control the borders, and successive Governments have failed. In the words of my right hon. Friend the Member for North West Essex (Mrs Badenoch), the previous Government, like the Governments before them, also promised to do exactly this, but, again, like the Governments before them, they did not deliver. I am afraid that this Government are just the latest addition to this rogues’ gallery of broken promises. Worse than disregarding the public’s wishes, public servants have told the British people to ignore what they can see and feel around them. The public was told that migration would deliver growth. It has not. Instead, people can feel their wages stagnating because they are being undercut. They can see the pressure of mass migration in their soaring rents, in how hard it is for their children to get on the housing ladder, in the lack of cohesion in their communities, and in the pressure on their GPs, dentists and schools. In the words of my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Nick Timothy), immigration is the biggest broken promise in British politics, and probably the biggest single reason that British politics is so broken.

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  13. ParliamentKatie Lam

    Immigration

    I wish to make a little progress. Fixing this broken system is the single biggest thing that we can do to restore trust in our politics. That means control of the borders and an end to mass migration; we need a system that works in the interests of this country and its people. Those who have come here legally and not contributed enough should be made to leave. Those who are here illegally, either by crossing the channel or from overstaying their visas, must be removed. The era of taxpayers funding accommodation, education, healthcare and legal challenges against their own Government for those who have no right to be here must end forever.

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  14. ParliamentKatie Lam

    Immigration

    We already have committed to that and will continue to do so. It is a clear amendment both to the Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill and to the deportation Bill in the name of my right hon. Friend, the shadow Home Secretary. Unless and until politicians of all stripes can deliver the migration system that the British people have voted for time and again, there will be no reason for them to trust in our political system, and they will be right not to. We have seen no indication from this Government since they came to power last year that they are willing to do what needs to be done to give the British people the immigration system that they want and deserve. The debate today, I am afraid, has been no different. The Minister clearly wished only to speak about the record of the previous Government. But they are in charge now—and what do we see? My right hon. Friend, the shadow Home Secretary, points out the facts. He says that Afghans are 20 times more likely to be sex offenders, and Government Members say, “Outrageous!”. Well, it is outrageous; saying so is not. He points out that over 70% of Somalis live in social housing, and they call it race-baiting. That is exactly the attitude that has allowed our political class to ignore the reality of the world that we live in. No party and no Government who continue to treat the British public’s very legitimate concerns with such scorn will ever rise to meet the challenge of securing our border. The hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Dr Pinkerton) called for more safe and legal routes, but demand to come to Britain will always dramatically outstrip our supply. There is no number of safe and legal routes that will ever stop people making the dangerous channel crossing. The hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Brash) called for this House—not foreign courts—to decide who can stay in this country. I admire his stance, and I look forward to the launch of his campaign to leave the ECHR. My right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes) made a characteristically insightful speech about the substantial challenges of integration, and rightly connected that to the volume of immigration. No country of our size could ever hope to integrate that many people each year, and he is right to say so.

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  15. ParliamentKatie Lam

    Immigration

    I thank the hon. Member for his clarification. I hate to break it to him, but article 8 will not do what he thinks it will, and tightening it will not solve the problem. The article that presents the biggest problems, actually, is article 3, which does not have caveats and cannot be tightened in the way that he suggests. The hon. Member for Doncaster Central (Sally Jameson) spoke of border security as national security. She was correct to do so, but just last week when told in this Chamber that terrorists come across the channel in small boats, her colleagues on the Government Benches laughed and jeered. My hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk made, as ever, a compelling economic and cultural case for control. The hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Jo White), who is not in her place, set out some of the worst problems with the current immigration system, but she was perhaps not entirely forthcoming in the way she shared the statistics. Far from Labour closing asylum hotels, there are 8,000 more people in asylum hotels than when Labour came to power. The hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire (Pete Wishart) and I have aired our differing views on this topic over many weeks in the Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill Committee. I am not sure either of us has done much to persuade the other, but I always enjoy his company.

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  16. ParliamentKatie Lam

    Immigration

    I can only recommend that my hon. Friend does not hold his breath. I was grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde (Mr Snowden) for mentioning what needs to be done on age assessments. The amendments we have tabled to the border security Bill would make much progress on that. Last week the Prime Minister said that mass migration risked turning us into an “island of strangers”. He was absolutely right. He recognised, as we do, that fixing migration is the single most important thing that his Government could do to restore public trust in our politics, yet the plan that he presented—the Government’s migration White Paper—is not a plan to end mass migration or control our borders. It is a plan for more of the same. Instead of a detailed programme, the Government’s White Paper offers more delays, more reviews, more consultations and more half-measures. Their plan to deport foreign criminals is subject to a consultation later this year. Their plan to reform the rules on settlement is subject to another consultation. When given the chance, they have voted against a hard cap on visas, against our plan to disapply the Human Rights Act 1998 from immigration cases, and against our plan to restrict long-term settlement to those who contribute enough to cover their costs. They are just not serious. The Home Secretary estimates that their plan will cut migration by 50,000 people. In the context of hundreds of thousands a year, that is just not enough. The Government have no plan to remove the 1.2 million people here illegally and no real plan to restrict study or family visas, which made up 40% of all migration last year. If we thought that the Government’s plans would genuinely end mass migration and control our borders, we would support them in a heartbeat. The need to do what is right for our country is bigger than any single party, politician or Prime Minister. Unfortunately, this Government have no plan, and they will go down as the latest Government who failed to fix mass migration. This is the most shameful betrayal of public trust in British politics, and it must end, but the Labour Government show no sign that they will do what needs to be done.

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  17. ParliamentJulia Lopez

    Immigration

    Does my right hon. Friend agree that not only are the measures inadequate, but they potentially open a big new route for inward migration? At the weekend, the Paymaster General suggested that the youth mobility experience scheme that we have with the EU was comparable to the scheme that we had with Uruguay. That involved 500 visas a year. We read in the papers today that the EU is asking for hundreds of thousands of youth visas. Is my right hon. Friend as concerned as I am about the possibility of this being a back door to very substantial migration?

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  18. ParliamentJoy Morrissey

    Immigration

    claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36). Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put. Question agreed to. Question put accordingly (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the original words stand part of the Question.

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  19. ParliamentJohn Lamont

    Draft Scotland Act 1998 (Increase of Borrowing Limits) Order 2025

    I just want to make a few remarks, Mr Efford; I will not detain colleagues for long. I commend the Minister for his remarks, and I associate myself with the remarks from the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon and Buchan. Just over a year ago that I was moving a similar draft order on behalf of the previous Government, so I congratulate the Minister on reading out those numbers so accurately. It is important to record, as the Minister and my hon. Friend did, that this additional funding will potentially be used by the Scottish Government to fund vital public services that many of our constituents depend on, whether that is schools, roads or other infrastructure projects that are vital to many of our constituents. But it is a great shame that the Scottish SNP Government perhaps do not use all of the resources available to them to fund those types of policy areas, and instead obsess repeatedly about independence referendums. Indeed, just this week, the First Minister spoke about how next year’s Scottish parliamentary election will be about independence referendums—again. From the SNP Government’s record, it is not hard to see how they have failed to deliver for the people of Scotland: one in six Scots is stuck on NHS waiting lists, drug deaths remain the highest in Europe, there are more than 900 fewer police officers today than prior to the pandemic, there are 1,500 fewer teachers, and the Government have failed to close the attainment gap. We also all know how much money was wasted on their reckless gender reform Bill. It is a shame that no SNP Members are present to welcome this additional funding from the UK Government or to defend their record in government in Scotland. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon and Buchan said, the SNP Government are accountable to Members of the Scottish Parliament, but is the Minister confident that the SNP Government will use this additional funding for the public services that our constituents use every day?

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  20. ParliamentJohn Glen

    Business and the Economy

    The shadow Minister is making a forensic case against the Government. May I ask him to focus on an issue that he will be familiar with from his prior ministerial experience? We had the banks before the Treasury Committee yesterday. The imminent outcome of the advice guidance boundary review will require the Government to work closely with the regulator to ensure absolute clarity, so that investors across the country can invest in the future of this country through equities, rather than just leaving their investments in cash. That will require action and direction from the Government. It is an issue on which there is probably consensus, but the Government need to step up to the mark.

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  21. ParliamentJohn Glen

    Immigration

    I recognise how important it is to use temperate language, but all my hon. Friend the Member for Hinckley and Bosworth (Dr Evans) did was to factually set out two statements the Prime Minister made, with an interval between them. The Minister must acknowledge that the public mood has changed significantly in very recent times. The purpose of this debate is to scrutinise the Government’s record in their 10 months in office and to see how effective those interventions have been. It is perfectly legitimate to ask about the characterisation that her Prime Minister has made very recently about this matter.

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  22. ParliamentJohn Glen

    UK Health Security Agency: Porton Down

    I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to bring the future of the UK Health Security Agency campus at Porton Down, in my Salisbury constituency, before the House again this evening. I say “again” because 15 years ago, on 22 June 2010, as an eager, newly elected, young MP, I raised the uncertain future of the institution in my first ever Adjournment debate. I did so again on 11 September 2013 and again on 24 June 2015, at the start of my second term as Salisbury’s MP. In one sense, a lot has happened in the past 15 years, but sadly, in another sense, nothing has happened. The project to relocate to Harlow, in Essex, is apparently no closer to completion, but neither have the highly skilled workers at Porton Down been given any assurances that they can stay put. I know that this matter will concern you, Madam Deputy Speaker, given that a number of residents in your constituency of Romsey and Southampton North, which is adjacent to my constituency, will be working at Porton. As the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care said in response to my oral question on 13 March, two months ago, this “has been running around the system so long that is now used in a case study for senior civil servant recruitment.”—[Official Report, 13 March 2025; Vol. 763, c. 1295.] As the House of Commons Library said in a note to me on 22 January this year, “neither UKHSA nor the Department for Health and Social Care have published an account of this programme to date, nor published any formal reports setting out the current state of the programme.” The National Audit Office published its report, “Investigation into the UK Health Security Agency’s health security campus programme”, in February last year. That report sets out the key facts on and decision points in UKHSA’s programme, including its history, the causes of the delays and the issues so far at the Harlow site. I will not rehearse all those this evening, but reading the report may be instructive for the Minister.

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  23. ParliamentJohn Glen

    UK Health Security Agency: Porton Down

    I am grateful, as ever, to the hon. Gentleman for his support this evening, and he anticipates some of the points I will make later on. I want also to refer to the Public Accounts Committee, which opened an inquiry into the UKHSA health security campus last year. The Committee heard evidence from the outgoing chief executive Professor Dame Jenny Harries and Shona Dunn, the second permanent secretary, but it was unable to publish a full report owing to the Dissolution of Parliament and instead published its conclusions and recommendations in a letter in May last year. There is a lack of clarity over where we are with these plans, and my simple purpose today is to secure the Government’s assessment of where we are now, 10 months into the new Administration. Since that Adjournment debate in 2010, four general elections have been fought and I have had five years as a Parliamentary Private Secretary and seven as a Minister in four roles, but since 2015 I have never been offered any briefing on the future of the facility at Porton and on whether that initial decision, given the events of recent years and a sixfold increase in the costs—rather more than inflation—will be followed through on. As the constituency MP, I am eager to get to the bottom of the matter, and in seeking an update from the Minister this evening—and I certainly do not hold her individually responsible, given that she has only been in post for just over 14 weeks—I do want to seek an understanding about the financial obligations of the programme.

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  24. ParliamentJohn Glen

    UK Health Security Agency: Porton Down

    I thank the hon. Gentleman who is very gracious in the way he puts over his point. It would be helpful for everyone in both our constituencies and for the country as a whole to know what is happening.

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  25. ParliamentJohn Glen

    UK Health Security Agency: Porton Down

    I am extremely grateful for that very helpful intervention, because the hon. Gentleman points out the co-location of DSTL and the UKHSA at Porton, and that is a really important fact. The possibility of sharing category 4 facilities—something that has been resisted sometimes by one party or the other—is a material consideration when trying to mitigate excessive costs. Last year’s NAO report set out that in February 2022, the programme had a staff team of 92 full-time equivalents based across multiple sites including Porton Down, London and other regional UKHSA centres, working across programme operations, management, delivery and capability, in addition to construction, finance and commercial and leadership teams. In November 2023, there were 69 FTE staff on the programme. The programme team is made up of civil servants and service providers, and has input from colleagues from other parts of the UKHSA. It is very ironic to me that as I read over about 13 mentions of Porton Down that I have made in this Chamber over the last 15 years, so many of the Ministers who responded are now either retired, deposed or in the other place. I am concerned that the civil service people, for whom I have great respect having worked closely with lots of civil servants, have been blissfully unaccountable to any enduring authority or direction on this, while all of this work has been going on in the background. That just cannot be right.

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  26. ParliamentJohn Glen

    UK Health Security Agency: Porton Down

    I am extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend; I recall the many conversations that we had on this matter. How can we be in a situation where £530 million—Public Health England’s initial estimated cost for the whole programme in 2015—became an estimated £3.2 billion in 2023? I am not sure if that is the very latest figure. Of even greater concern to me is the fact that it was estimated in 2015 that the project would be completed by 2021, yet the best estimate now is that it will not be fully operational until 2036 at the earliest, which is 11 years away. That is if the programme remains at Harlow.

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  27. ParliamentJohn Glen

    UK Health Security Agency: Porton Down

    I am extremely grateful to be made aware of the hon. Lady’s visit and of her support for the capabilities that we undoubtedly need in this country. I will go back to give some context. As I mentioned in the 2010 debate, the Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response, as it was known and as many—certainly my retired constituents—still refer to it locally, plays a crucial role in the life of this country and has done for more than 100 years. I suspect that one reason why it is a massive challenge to deliver this project is that a lot has happened during the considerable time that has elapsed since 2015, much of it unexpected. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned, Porton’s sister establishment, DSTL, was instrumental in dealing with the Novichok attack in 2018 in Salisbury. During covid, the established expertise at Porton was critical in the support of our nation during the vaccine development and testing process. My hypothesis is that while peacetime, desk-based studies in Whitehall may have favoured Harlow as a hub back in 2015—it may also have been a function of the former Chancellor George Osborne’s PPS being the MP for Harlow—the reality of how the actual needs of the country played out in practice has shown beyond doubt that Porton has remained instrumental in delivering translational health research for our nation in the interim. Instead of that group of civil servants challenging themselves in the light of events, it was more convenient, in an environment where political sponsorship had moved on, for them to keep driving forward the Harlow vision, even when the labs needed conversion, the planning process was delayed and the lifespan of Porton proved to underline the resilience of the Wiltshire site. That was reinforced to me just three years ago in 2022, when the Health and Social Care Secretary, Sir Sajid Javid, came to visit Porton Down alongside Professor Dame Jenny Harries, the chief executive, to open a new groundbreaking facility. The two-storey, 22,000 square foot building was one of two that made up a new £65 million vaccine development and evaluation centre, which was built to help to develop and licence new vaccines and cement the UK as a global leader in testing against future variants of the virus. At the time, the Department’s press release said: “Technologies like those at Porton Down are vital to tackling both COVID-19 and a broad range of emerging health security threats, and this has been recognised by the government’s…funding to progress research into vaccines to help future-proof the world from diseases.” At that point, Jenny Harries said: “It was a pleasure to be able to tour these…world-class facilities, with the Health and Social Care Secretary…which will help further establish the UKHSA and its Porton Down site as a global leader of vaccine testing and variant research in the fight against COVID-19. The work undertaken…will define the UK’s future pandemic response.” I was left pondering—while obviously bound by the strictures of ministerial collective responsibility not to ask the question—why, if Harlow was the answer, such significant additional, separate, parallel capital investment was being made at Porton. Porton remains a world leader in examining diseases that spread rapidly, including insect-borne diseases such as West Nile fever and malaria. It is a world-class centre for translational research that helps to ensure new discoveries are developed and translated from the mind of the scientist into real benefits in tested medicines for patients. Porton routinely works with partners to develop tuberculosis vaccines and vaccines for whooping cough, meningitis and anthrax. Porton has the biggest TB group in Europe. It has an aerosol delivery function using specialist equipment and a settled, secure setting established after many generations of proven delivery for our nation. Porton is routinely used to do work for the US Government. It is one of very few centres in the world with the capability and experienced staff to carry out that work. The conclusions of the Public Accounts Committee last May raised the most serious potential consequence of continued indecision. It said: “As more time passes with no decision on this critical programme the risk of a gap in service for the UK’s high containment public health laboratories grows, with concerning implications for our health security.” Given the significant interim capital investment, there needs to be a serious review of what is going on here. We know about the risk to the 2036 Harlow completion date because of this indecision and the runaway costs. We also know that the best option must be defined swiftly. I think that is delivering a phased refurbishment on existing sites at Porton Down and Colindale, as set out by the UKHSA chief executive to the Public Accounts Committee in March, allowing Porton to continue its proven record of delivering world-class research and ensuring no such gap in our health capabilities. I respectfully ask the Minister, recognising her limited experience of this issue, but respecting very much the office that she carries, whether she can explain to the House this evening how the country can go from an identified need to upgrade the Porton facilities by the then Health Protection Agency at Porton in 2006, to a situation 19 years later where three business cases have been produced by the Public Health England and the UKHSA project team—by up to 92 people—and the programme still has not received full approval. What about the wishes of some 900 world-class scientists working in south Wiltshire, over 90% of whom, when asked previously by their trade union, did not want to move? When will this decision be made? Given their unique skillsets, how will replacements be found for the large proportion who will not want to be relocated? I urge the Minister to challenge the documents put in front of her and to actively consider what my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Cambridgeshire (Steve Barclay) has said, given his experience as Chief Secretary to the Treasury and as Secretary of State. Will she consider that, given the investment announced by Sajid Javid three years ago, Porton Down has been equipped to continue to serve the nation far into the future? Is continuing to pursue the vision of a Harlow hub, with its £3.2 billion price tag and 11-year delivery horizon, throwing good money after bad? We have spent £400 million, and we have £2.8 billion left to find. Effectively, we are clinging to a redundant plan that briefly made sense—just about, although I was never shown or able to see the outline business case 10 years ago—but that no longer truly reflects what we can afford and the realities of this country’s public health and security needs.

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  28. ParliamentJohn Cooper

    Business and the Economy

    May I give the House the news that ex-special forces soldiers, including the Minister for Veterans and People, have reached the top of Everest today? Congratulations to them. We also have a mountain to climb to create growth in this country. My hon. Friend mentioned HMRC; does it not reflect the Government? The Government’s attitude to business is that it is a dripping roast to be devoured and taxed to a standstill.

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  29. ParliamentJohn Cooper

    Business and the Economy

    As a member of the Business and Trade Committee, it has been a privilege to traverse this land from Exeter to Belfast and from Glasgow to Cardiff to speak with people on the frontline of business. They are a doughty, resilient lot, doing amazing things; Britain’s got talent, but heads are going down. The barrage of red tape is taking a toll. Costs are up, and I must reference the speech from the hon. Member for Loughborough (Dr Sandher), which probably owed more to the boards of the Globe theatre further along the Thames than to this place. In his highly colourful speech, I was not quite sure whether he was blaming Mrs Thatcher or gas prices for high energy bills, but he should really look towards his own Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, because much of the increase in energy prices, which hammer businesses right across this country, comes from carbon taxes applied by this Government. Critically, all this leads to expansion plans being shelved, as confidence slides. That means fewer jobs, especially for young people and those chasing that all-important first job. This Government’s boast is that they are putting money into working people’s pockets. Setting aside the questionable veracity of that claim, there is no doubt that if someone loses their job, or if they do not have a job in the first place, there is no extra money in their pocket. What this Government are creating is a hostile environment for some sectors. Yes, there are millions of pounds—maybe billions—for steel, plenty for unionised train drivers and no-strings pay boosts for NHS staff, but what about agriculture, which is the key driver of the economy in rural Dumfries and Galloway, my constituency? Farmers and many associated businesses might just about survive Labour’s urban-centric indifference, but the active harm it is doing by taking steps such as the upping of inheritance tax and the driving down of agricultural property relief is a disaster. The consequences of Labour’s avaricious increase in employer national insurance contributions are all too real. The Usual Place is a Dumfries charity that does amazing work helping young people with a host of mental and physical issues move into real jobs in catering. It is cutting back on those jobs because extra national insurance contributions put a bounty on each employee’s head, meaning jobs gone and life chances maimed. I hope the charity will celebrate its 10th anniversary next month, but Labour is doing nothing to help it get there. At the other end of the spectrum, I spoke this week with a major firm whose payroll supports a five-figure number of employees. It has a strong social conscience and tries to tap into the huge cohort of economically inactive Britons and get them into the world of work, with all that that means for their pay packets but also for the intangibles such as the self-esteem and dignity that work affords. It calls itself a gateway employer, proud to be the first rung on the jobs ladder for thousands, but it is aghast at Labour’s anti-business approach. Its increased bill for extra national insurance contributions is eye-watering, and now it faces the thicket of rules and regulations that is the Employment Rights Bill—the Deputy Prime Minister’s love letter to the unions. The imposition of day one rights means that a taking a chance on employees with poor qualifications and a poor employment history, or perhaps ex-offenders, is much more risky for the firm. It knows—as do myriad other businesses, large and small—that it is less likely to recruit, while elements of the legislation are designed instead to swell the ranks of the increasingly restive trade unions. We are through the looking-glass with this Government’s unbalanced approach to business. Black is now white.

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  30. ParliamentJohn Cooper

    Business and the Economy

    The hon. Lady is a doughty campaigner on the Business and Trade Committee. Unquestionably, mistakes were made. We know that and we have been through it before, but this Government have been in charge for 10 months now, and we see inflation rising and jobs slipping away. As I said, we are through the looking glass: trade deals are bad, except when they are good. The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs last week criticised the Conservatives’ Australia and New Zealand deals for hitting farmers, while saying that his Government’s US deal protects farmers. The US deal put the welly boot into beef farmers, who face cheap imports here and US quotas over there that they just cannot fulfil.

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  31. ParliamentJohn Cooper

    Business and the Economy

    The hon. Gentleman is right. These are not free trade agreements in the normal sense of the words: they are frittering around the edges, as he said himself. The difficulty for beef farmers in Dumfries and Galloway is that prices are rising, which is partly down to a drop in stock because of costs and things like that, so they are unable to fulfil this idea of sending beef to America. That is unlikely—it is more likely that we will see cheap American beef coming here. Again, we go back through the looking glass. Up is down when the Employment Rights Bill makes strikes more likely, yet is touted as a boost to productivity. It is incredible. The minimum wage is up, which is no bad thing, but let us not pretend that that is Government money: hard-pressed businesses have to find that extra cash, again. In short, Labour is not working and, terrifyingly, neither are increasing numbers of our constituents.

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  32. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    Pubs are the lifeblood of communities, particularly in rural constituencies such as mine in Broadland and Fakenham. People could perhaps make an argument for individual tax rises, but it is the combination of three in particular that are hitting pubs so badly. It is the increase in the minimum wage—the Government are very good at increasing prices for everyone else, but not themselves—as well as the removal of business rates relief for hospitality and leisure, and the rise in national insurance contributions for employers. The latter point is not so much about the overall percentage rise, but the reduction in the threshold from £9,200 to £5,000, which particularly impacts those who employ part-time staff and those on low wages. It is a triple whammy on pubs. Is that why so many are closing across the country?

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  33. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    My hon. Friend will know that business confidence has plummeted since Labour came to power. Does he agree that one of the reasons it has plummeted is the loss of faith in this Government? Businesses were promised that their plans were fully costed and fully funded in advance and there would be no increased business taxes, but within 90 days the Government went back on that. How can business ever trust this Government again?

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  34. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    Fishing is one sector, but there is a clause in the Employment Rights Bill that affects all businesses. At this point I should draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, as a former entrepreneur who has employed well over 1,000 people in my time. The problem is that if day one employment rights are imposed for any hire, it will be a massive disincentive for businesses to take a chance and take on people who are more vulnerable: the young and the less well qualified. Why would a business take that chance if it risked being hauled up over day one employment rights?

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  35. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    My hon. Friend talks about the message of this Government, and just last week I spoke to a first-generation immigrant, who talked about the message for entrepreneurs in this country. She said, “If you can’t hand on more to the next generation through your own hard work, what’s the point?” She is right, isn’t she?

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  36. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    My hon. Friend is being enormously generous in giving way, and I am genuinely grateful. Labour parroted during Prime Minister’s questions that there has been growth of 0.7% in the first quarter of this year. Does my hon. Friend agree that, if we look into the figures, we see that a chunk of that is production rising by 1.1%? That is actually due to electricity, gas and water prices being raised, and the Government count that as economic growth.

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  37. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    The Minister talks about growth and his pro-growth policy. In quarter 1, he had the unexpected growth of 0.7%. The UK Treasury’s April 2025 survey of independent forecasts assesses that the entire growth for the year is 0.8%. Does that mean that he is looking forward to 0.1% growth for the whole of the rest of the year? His policy is not working, is it?

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  38. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    The Minister said that I was wrong. And, yes, it was the Treasury’s own survey, so perhaps it was wrong, but is the Bank of England wrong as well? It has a forecast of 0.75% growth for this year, and even the OBR has a forecast of just 1% growth. His growth policies are simply not working, are they?

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  39. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    My right hon. Friend is making a good point. When the Government brought in the increased national insurance contribution for employers, they used sleight of hand, saying that it was not a tax on working people, but does he agree that the Office for Budget Responsibility’s assessment of the impact concluded that the overwhelming majority of that cost will be borne by the employees and not by this notional employer?

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  40. ParliamentJerome Mayhew

    Business and the Economy

    Labour used to agree with the point that my right hon. Friend makes. Am I right in saying that it was a Labour Government in 1976 that generated the policy of having a relief in the first place?

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