I beg to move amendment 257, in clause 41, page 53, line 7, at end insert—
“117GA FCA guidance
(1) The FCA must issue guidance on contractual overrides.
(2) Guidance on contractual overrides must include—
(a) when and how overrides can be used;
(b) how to demonstrate transfers are always in members’ best interests; and
(c) how contractual overrides are independently certified.”
Amendments 255, 256 and 257 ensure that contractual override powers are operational in advance of the first value for money assessments.
The amendment is very similar to amendment 278, which was tabled by the hon. Member for Tamworth. The industry has highlighted to us a concern that the Government’s proposed sequencing will not provide enough time between contractual overrides becoming permissible and VFM assessments being conducted, which will totally undermine the effectiveness of consolidation and value improvement. Pensions UK has encouraged the Government to accelerate that and to bring forward the implementation to allow schemes to make progress on consolidation sooner, so that the override is in place well in advance of the VFM framework.
We drafted amendment 257 with the idea that if transfers took place before the VFM framework was implemented, further guidance from the FCA would be required on how and when overrides could be used. However, we welcome the compromise set out in amendment 278, which would ensure that external transfers do not take place until VFM assessments are available. Frankly, that amendment is better-crafted than ours. If we had done them the other way around, I would have deferred to the advice of the hon. Member for Tamworth on whether she wanted to move the amendment. She was right to withdraw her amendment, and we will withdraw ours, but I urge the Minister to write to us both on the outcome of this matter before Report. It would be useful to have his comments beforehand so that we can challenge him on Report, and possibly move the amendment again—who knows?
I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendments made: 143, in clause 41, page 53, line 8, leave out “Powers to make” and insert “Treasury”.
This amendment is consequential on Amendment 144.
Amendment 144, in clause 41, page 53, line 25, at end insert—
“(1A) The Treasury must by regulations require the FCA to include provision of a description specified in the regulations in general rules made in compliance with section 117E(4)(a) (how to determine whether a person is independent), alongside any other provision included in such general rules.
(1B) Regulations under subsection (1A) must in particular require the FCA to include in such general rules provision designed to ensure that the independent person does not have a conflict of interest.”
This amendment requires the Treasury to make regulations about the requirements that need to be met by an independent person appointed under section 117E.
Amendment 145, in clause 41, page 53, line 38, leave out from “benefits”” to end of line 39 and insert
“means money purchase benefits within the meaning of the Pension Schemes Act 1993 (see section 181(1) of that Act) or the Pension Schemes (Northern Ireland) Act 1993 (see section 176(1) of that Act);”.
This amendment is consequential on Amendment 140.
Amendment 146, in clause 41, page 54, line 3, leave out from “scheme”” to end of line 4 and insert
“means a personal pension scheme within the meaning of the Pension Schemes Act 1993 (see section 1(1) of that Act) or the Pension Schemes (Northern Ireland) Act 1993 (see section 1(1) of that Act);”.—(Torsten Bell.)
This amendment is consequential on Amendment 140.
Clause 41, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 42
Default pension benefit solutions
I also congratulate the hon. Member on her elevation to Economic Secretary to the Treasury; I am sure she will do very well.
The UK banking sector provides a valuable service to our economy, keeping money in circulation, funding business and mortgages and all the rest of it. The financial services sector is the UK’s biggest export sector. According to UK Finance, UK banks generate around £45 billion in tax every year, but because of things like the bank levy, UK banks now pay an effective rate of around 46%, which is higher than competitors in New York, Frankfurt, Dublin and Singapore. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has managed to dig her own £30 billion black hole in the economy, but can the Minister reassure the City of London and this House that there are no plans to increase taxes on our banking and wider financial services sector in the upcoming Budget in November?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way on the negotiations. He is making great play of the fact that the previous Government started the negotiations and that there were 11 rounds of them. Is he not aware that, in 1965, the United Nations passed a resolution saying that we should enter into conversations with Argentina over the Falkland Islands. Those negotiations went on for 17 years and ended in 1981. In 1982, we all know what happened. So it is not where we start; it is where we finish.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
If the Minister is such a big fan of the social time discounting method that has been applied, will he tell the House where the social time discounting method has been used in other parts of Government to generate net present value?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
I do not know whether the hon. Member listened to the outstanding, forensic dismantling of the Government’s case by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright), but on the basis that every constituency in this country will kiss away the opportunity to have £52 million as a result of this deal—that is what it is going to cost in total—would he like to tell the people of Dunfermline and Dollar why he would rather give away that amount of money to a foreign Government on a spurious legal basis than invest it in his own constituency?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
I am grateful to the hon. and gallant Member for giving way. On the pricing, he said that Government Front Benchers are putting it out that this is a good deal. Would it still be a good deal if it was £35 billion or something like that?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
There are no two ways about it: this is a surrender Bill with no benefits to my Broxbourne constituents. Ministers have shamefully attempted to hide the shocking cost of this deal from the British people and the public at large. When the new Labour Government took office, they kept telling us in this Chamber about the pretend £22 billion black hole in the public finances. If the black hole of £22 billion that we are continually told about by the Government did exist, I could solve it overnight—don’t do this deal. This deal is £35 billion to the Mauritian Government. The Labour Government go after British family farms with the family farm tax. They go after our pensioners and take their winter fuel allowance away, and they increase national insurance contributions for businesses, to make it more expensive for them to employ people, but they could just not do this deal. They talk in fiction, and this is an absolute disgrace.
How will Mauritius spend this money? By cutting taxes for its own citizens and paying their debts. Is the Minister proud that the only income tax cuts that this Labour Government will deliver are 6,000 miles away at the expense of the British taxpayer? The last time I checked, this was the British Parliament and we are supposed to stand up for British interests, not the interests of foreign countries or foreign citizens. We should be cutting taxes here and turbocharging the economy, not giving stuff away that we already own. We already have a base, and now we are going to lease it back, as we have heard from a number of colleagues.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
No, I will not give way. There have been lots of interventions, and I am fed up with the same interventions coming from the same Labour Members. Quite frankly it does not help the debate—just because they say something several times does not make it true.
The Bill is costing us financially, but it also has security risks. China supports the deal and is welcoming Mauritius into its sphere of influence with open arms. Mauritius is strengthening relations with Iran and Russia. As a Policy Exchange report notes, it is impossible to assert with certainty how much influence China will have over Mauritius in the next five or 10 years, let alone for the 99-year duration of this lease.
We already have British sovereign territory with a base, so I cannot understand why we have done that negotiation, and why we are hurting the British people with tax rises. As I said, we are being cruel to older people by taking away their winter fuel allowance, going after farmers with the family farm tax, and going after British businesses with the increase to national insurance contributions, yet we can find money out of nowhere—£35 billion—to give to Mauritius.
In summary, I gently say to the Government that people out there know that. When we knock on doors, as I am sure we all do across our constituencies, people will say to us, “Hang on a minute. How come we are being punished? How come we have to pay more taxes, but you soon find money when it suits you?” That is why the British public have fallen out of love with this Government already. Hopefully the Government will wake up and start representing the people who they were elected to represent in this Chamber: the British public, not foreign Governments such as that of Mauritius.
Draft Data Protection Act 2018 (Qualifying Competent Authorities) Regulations 2025
It is a pleasure to see your wisdom in the Chair, Sir Jeremy. Although I understand the impetus behind the change, I want to ask the Minister one or two questions about it. She and I have traded blows over this agenda in the past. She was my shadow for two years, so I congratulate her on her new position. I am sure she will do a fantastic job.
In considering this change, we have to ask ourselves why sharing was made so difficult in the first place. We have to trust that those who came before us, who put this legislation in place, considered that issue. The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton West, said that subsequent events have illustrated the need for agencies to work together more closely on the analysis of data for the prevention of the sorts of incidents he mentioned. Despite that, I think we have to come with a bit of scepticism about what the result of these regulations might be, and what liberties we might be trampling over. My questions are framed in that regard.
I was slightly alarmed by what the Minister said and the contents of the explanatory memorandum, and I was thinking about raising a point of order about the fact that the Government cannot really tell us why the competent authorities have been included in the list. It raises the question of why we are all here. We might as well have had a list that said, “Whoever we decide. Don’t ask questions.” It does seem a bit odd that we are passing regulations, but we are hampered in our scrutiny in asking questions about particular organisations. Nevertheless, I will ask the questions that I have about them and see what the Minister has to say.
First, I wanted to ask about the provosts. The list includes the provost marshals of the Royal Navy Police, of the Royal Military Police and of the Royal Air Force Police, and “The Provost Marshal for serious crime.” I had never heard of that person before, so perhaps the Minister could start by telling us who the provost marshal for serious crime is.
I understand that all the other organisations—certainly the police and chief constables—have very strong and automated controls on the data that they use, not least to the extent, for example, that every access that any individual makes to the police computing system is logged and maintained, and people are very often convicted for irregularly accessing material. However, given that these individuals are military and that we are living with the consequences of a major military data breach that has cost us many billions of pounds and put quite a lot of lives at risk, can the Minister reassure us that the processing of data between civil and military organisations will be done to the same standard, and that it therefore will be safe from leakage?
Regulation 2(o) states that,
“a body established in accordance with a collaboration agreement under section 22A of the Police Act 1996(9)”
can be classed as a qualifying competent authority. What type of body might that be? If we were to have an example of such an organisation, we might be able to form a view on whether it is appropriate for it to be on the list.
I have a question about the inclusion of Revenue and Customs. As the Minister may know, in the old days when Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise were two separate organisations, they had very different cultures. The culture at Customs and Excise was of kicking the door down. They were kind of “Moonfleet”, Daphne du Maurier-type anti-smuggling hard men and women, whereas at the Inland Revenue they were a little more intellectual and professional. In one, they wore suits; in the other, they wore flak jackets. When Gordon Brown amalgamated the two, unfortunately the muscular culture at Customs and Excise was translated and taken over at the Revenue, to the extent that they now both have more kick-in-the-door characters. So I am concerned about the amount of sensitive personal data that Revenue and Customs control at the moment; about the culture of that organisation and its increasing aggression over the last 20 years or so; and what implication that is going to have for the rest of us.
I understand that the Minister cannot tell us why this is being introduced, but is she able to tell us whether Customs and Excise will, as a result, be asked to routinely scan millions and millions of datapoints and people’s personal financial data to look for patterns of movement and transactions, for example? Or is this for use in relation to specific investigations? My general view is that, as with most things, the British people will accept a specific investigatory sharing regime, but may not accept a general fishing regime.
The same is true of the Land Registry, which is on the list. I understand that in the search for illicit funds or activity, specific inquiries and the processing of data is required, but on general scanning, particularly as the Land Registry becomes more and more digital and automated, I am nervous about us moving to a kind of American-style National Security Agency approach, where billions if not trillions of datapoints are collected on a regular basis and analysed by computers—artificial intelligence or whatever it might be—to look for patterns of behaviour. That may well be the way that we are going, but if we are going there, we should be transparent with the public about what we are doing, notwithstanding that the Minister cannot tell us why or what today.
I have two further questions. On supervision, what will the supervision over this necessarily covert process be? Does the ICO, which I presume will be the supervisory body, have the right security clearance at the right level that will allow it to access this operation of data sharing to the extent that it can satisfy itself that the statement that the Minister has made—that we are in compliance with all our human rights obligations and in compliance with the law—will be looked at? Within the Department, similarly, what will supervision of the effect of this data sharing be?
Thirdly, given that this will be new, is it likely to be brought to the Intelligence and Security Committee for review of its operation? That would be at least three layers of supervision over what is quite a large step up in capability—it is not unwelcome, but it is a large step up—by the Security Services and others.
Finally, I want to ask about risk assessment. The sharing of data between organisations could present a greater risk of leakage, or alternatively it could mean, if only one of them is maintaining the data to which the other has access, that there is less likelihood of leakage. We have talked about efficacy. The Minister did not say anything about the risks and benefits from a data security point of view.
As we have learned to our cost recently with the military, the transfer of data between organisations, whether sharing or otherwise, does run the risk of it falling into hands that it should not. Will these organisations therefore have to subscribe to a tighter data control regime than they would have done, to make sure that the possibility of that leakage is minimised?
Draft Data Protection Act 2018 (Qualifying Competent Authorities) Regulations 2025
The Minister said that these notices will be published; will these bodies be general powers or specific powers? Will the Government say, “We’re going to grant a notice on this for six months for a specific purpose,” or will it be just, “We’re going to let the Army share it with whoever, in perpetuity”? So, are the powers time limited?
Secondly, while I understand that the Minister cannot explain to us why, who or what regarding these organisations, as the hon. Member for Newton Abbot said, all of these organisations will be processing that data on third-party software, much of which will be owned by private corporations, many from overseas. Does this power extend to them, by proxy, because they are contractors to the primary organisation—which is, necessarily, by its nature, public sector—or will there be firewalls and controls therein as well?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
My right hon. Friend made an excellent point earlier about the underlying socialism in this agreement. The initial agreement—[Laughter.] No, let me just clarify: the initial agreement from May very clearly says it is about apologising for the colonisation of Mauritius and that it is about the regrettable legacy. Everything is laid out: it is about apologising for our British history and heritage. It is not about being proud of protecting our sovereignty, protecting the realm and protecting our security. We should not be saying that we will apologise and pay out because we feel bad about everything that we have done. That is the difference between the Conservatives and the Labour party, and that is why we are taking such objection to this Bill.
I warmly welcome the new Economic Secretary to her role. Over the summer I looked at issues around liquidity in the London Stock Exchange and the deterioration that has happened. Given that only 15% of share trades attract stamp duty and much more trading is conducted in a dark environment, will the new Economic Secretary meet with me to hear my concerns and the concerns of those in the City so that we can move forward in a positive direction?
Agricultural Property Relief and Business Property Relief: Impact on Farming
6. If she will meet with representatives of the farming industry to discuss the potential impact of changes to agricultural property relief and business property relief on that sector.
Agricultural Property Relief and Business Property Relief: Impact on Farming
The Chancellor elicited much public sympathy with her recent tearful appearance on these Benches, but over the summer I have had Dumfries and Galloway farmers in tears at the loss of the next generation of farming. A new Centre for the Analysis of Taxation report says that HMRC’s own figures indicate that these changes to taxes are unfair and unbalanced. Will the Minister please think again?
The Government want to drive growth through house building, but even before the departure of the Deputy Prime Minister, they were predicted to miss the 1.5 million new homes target by half a million. How does the Chancellor and her team of tax raisers think a 3,000% hike in the builders tax, adding £28,000 to the cost of building a new home, will help to deliver the new homes that young people need? Rather than consult on it, why will she not rule out this damaging tax rise?
The Chancellor once claimed that she had a plan for fixing the foundations with infrastructure at the very heart. Now, through a consultation that the Government hoped nobody would notice, she has found a way to tax the foundations. By looking to impose a new levy on quarries, Labour could add billions of pounds more to the costs of infrastructure projects across the country. That cannot be right. Can the Chancellor please provide the construction industry—the very people who will grow our economy—with an assurance that this proposed builders tax will not go ahead?
I will call Dr Allison Gardner to move the motion and then I will call the Minister to respond. I remind other Members that they can make a speech only with prior permission from both the Member in charge of the debate and the Minister. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
The Minister has made it absolutely apparent that this is about the long-term security of the base, so could he explain why, under article 13, if after 99 years the Mauritians decide not to negotiate, the base will just stop. We will get first refusal, but we can easily see that the Chinese would outbid us because we in this country decide that that is not affordable. We are a hostage to fortune, and that base will crumble. He has not secured the base, he has just deferred the issue by four generations, and this House will then have to decide what to do.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
Can the Minister point to any other country in the world that has used NPV to give away sovereignty? As far as I am aware, there is none, so why are we pioneering that way forward?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
The Minister challenged the Opposition and the shadow Chancellor about our position on net present value, but the reason is that the use of NPV is unprecedented. It is used for commercial deals that the Government make and is standardised for that alone, not for international agreements on sovereignty. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we will not change on net present value, which has its place in commercial deals but not in giving away sovereignty?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
On the conservation point, is it not that the case has already been tested in UNCLOS between 2010 and 2015, when it was said that we could not go ahead with a marine protection area for this British territory because we had not consulted properly with Mauritius? At that point, it was also determined that UNCLOS could not rule on sovereignty as that was not its basis. So we found out not only about the sovereignty side, but that we cannot protect the islands on the environmental part. What guarantees does my right hon. Friend see in the treaty that we will have ecological protections in the area, given those findings?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
Given the importance of the Chagos islands to our defence, has the hon. Gentleman’s Committee thought about even doing a review into the Chagos islands and what this would look like? That way, such questions could be addressed directly in a decent period of time—we only have four or five hours tonight—and he could spend several weeks looking into the matter. Is that something he and his Committee would consider?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
The hon. Member is making a powerful point. We heard an impassioned defence not to bring the Falkland Islands or other British overseas territories into this, but Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands have self-determination, voted for by their people. Is it his thesis that that will apply for the Chagossians, and therefore they would make the determination whether to be British or, indeed, go to the Mauritians on that basis?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
I am grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend for giving way and using his legal background. It is more secure legally for those 99 years but, more definitively, at that 99-year point, if the Mauritians decide not to have a base there, categorically that is their decision. Therefore, by proxy, it is actually more unsafe, just in 100 years’ time.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
On that basis, there were 17 rounds of formal negotiations for the Falkland Islands between ’65 and ’82. What would the outcome be under the hon. Gentleman’s way forward?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
Is this not the point that we have heard time and again from Government Members? This deal runs out in 99 years, and at that point Mauritius can simply close the base or hand it on to the biggest offer. We get first rights on it, but if the Chinese decide to invest hundreds of billions, we may not be able to match that. We are over a barrel. In 100 years’ time, people will be in this place having this exact debate saying, “How do we solve this problem?” Is the hon. Member as concerned about that as I am?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
May I say how much of an honour it is to follow the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn)? Although we do not necessarily agree on a lot of policy, I am always struck by the fact that he puts people at the heart of his speeches. That has never been the case more than during his long campaign on this issue, on which he spoke eloquently. He is putting Chagossians right at the heart of any decision making. He deserves a lot of acclaim for that. He is right to call out some of the rhetoric in this debate, because, at the end of the day, those people really matter. I thank him for putting his points on the record.
There are three broad areas that I would like to cover: sovereignty, costs and some of the scariest parts of the Bill. I listened to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright), and I must admit that I am not nearly as learned or experienced as him; I bow to his legal analysis. I am a mere doctor, so I look for an evidence base when trying to understand the process. To that end, I thought it would be useful to write to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, which I duly did. I received a letter on 28 July 2025 from the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), who I see will kindly respond, and is sat in his place. Much to my surprise and pleasure, a lot of what is in the letter was in the Minister’s speech. This debate allows me to walk through some of the letter and pose the questions that hit me as I looked into this case.
I must admit that when I stepped into this House in 2019, this was not a topic that I knew a huge deal about—I think many Members on both sides would say the same—but it very quickly became a topic that I realised we should look into understanding, especially as it deals with security.
The letter states:
“We had to act now because the base was under threat.”
That implies urgency, but the letter is loose on who was under threat, where and how. There is legal uncertainty but, as we have heard, we do not know which court is involved or why. It goes on to say:
“The courts have already made decisions which undermine our position.”
Courts, plural. We know that the ICJ is involved, but as has been stated, its opinion was non-binding, and there is a carve-out relating to the Commonwealth.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, the hon. Member for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard), said, after being pushed to speak on the matter multiple times, that the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea was the area of concern, but he will know that back in 2015, under annex VII, the tribunal agreed with the UK that sovereignty could not be determined by UNCLOS. This was a marine protection issue. Britons were trying to protect the area, and Mauritius wanted to open it up to farm it, and we were found against, under that treaty, in that court. This raises an important side issue: what protections are there in the Bill for the environment? They seem scant, or just not there.
The letter goes further, stating that
“in 2021…a Special Chamber of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea…ruled that Mauritius’ sovereignty was inferred from ICJ”.
So the Government themselves point that out. The letter goes on to say:
“The UK was not party to this case”.
Well, obviously, it would not be, but that means that we have not had our day in court to explain why we do not think that the judgment should apply. Mauritius’ sovereignty was inferred from that non-binding, political judgment.
The letter goes on:
“If Mauritius were to take us to court again, the UK’s longstanding legal view is that we would not have a realistic prospect of successfully defending its legal position on sovereignty in such litigation.”
Well, which court? If this advice is so long-standing, why do we not know about it? How have we got this far, going for year upon year with no agreement, without any urgency? It seems sensible and appropriate to release the advice on this. At the start of that quote, the letter said “If Mauritius”. It states later that it is
“highly likely that further wide-ranging litigation would be brought quickly by Mauritius against the UK.”
What evidence do the Government have to back that up? What is it that they say Mauritius will act so quickly on? We certainly have not seen it, if it was from 2021. The dates 2023 and 2024 have been mentioned, and we are now in 2025. I would be interested to see the Government release the evidence base for their claim about how quickly litigation would come forward, because as they rightly point out, there have been 11 rounds of negotiations, so there has clearly been time to sort things out.
Before someone jumps in and says, “Well, you opened the negotiations”, I would point out that we did that for the Falkland Islands as well. I find it amazing that we have trade unionists who built their whole careers on negotiating suddenly chastising the Conservatives for listening to the other side of a disagreement. That seems bizarre to me, because we want to respect each other and exchange ideas, but not have an agreement. It is rightly pointed out by Conservative Members that the agreement was not there; we did not take it. On the cost of the deal, there is no cost, because we did not have a deal to sign off.
The very next sentence in the letter says:
“This might, for example, include further arbitral proceedings against the UK under Annex VII of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. A judgment from such a tribunal would be legally binding on the UK.”
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
It is. It is true about the legally binding aspect within the area that the tribunal covers, but that does not cover sovereignty, as we learned in 2015 when the tribunal sided with the British Government. Here we have the farcical situation of a House of policy and law shining light on one side and another, but never on the truth. This is where my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam is exactly right. If the Government were to come forward and say exactly which court, where and why, they might get more sympathy from Opposition, but we have been through an entire five-hour debate and we still do not have answers to those questions.
Another court that is often cited is the International Telecommunication Union covering spectre, radio and radar. Article 48.1 states
“Member States retain their entire freedom with regard to military radio installations,”
and the Government know that. Even the written answer from the Minister—it has been hinted at before—states:
“Individual countries have the sovereign right to manage and use the radio spectrum, within their borders, the way they wish, subject to not causing interference with other countries. This right is recognised in the Radio Regulations. The Radio Regulations are the international framework for the use of spectrum by radiocommunication services, defined and managed by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU). Individual countries, not the ITU, make their own sovereign spectrum assignments in accordance with the Radio Regulations. The ITU has no legal authority over these assignments regardless of the country’s civilian or military classification of spectrum. The ITU cannot challenge the UK’s use of civilian or military spectrum.”
It is clear here—the Government know it in their own answers—that the ITU has no role in sovereignty. It all boils down to where one believes British overseas territories stand.
Now we must talk about the cost, which has been much debated. There have been three figures in the debate: £3.4 billion, £10 billion and £34 billion. The £3.4 billion is the net present value using social time preference rate. The £10 billion is inflation adjusted, and the £34 billion is the nominal value by the Government Actuary’s Department. The question is, why use net present value? I put it earlier in the debate that there is no other precedent in the world for NPV being used in sovereignty matters. The Minister at the time asked whether the Conservatives want to do away with using NPV—of course not.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
Absolutely, the Minister says it is within the Green Book. Absolutely not, because it has a perfect place in domestic use for commercial practicalities, not for international sovereignty issues. No other country has looked, or would look, at this because it does not make sense.
The House of Commons Library said when asked that
“this methodology is regularly used in government accounting, but its main use is for cost-benefit analyses. It is unusual to see it used in this situation like this, where only the cost is being assessed and it is not being compared to any benefit”.
On that basis, and listening to the House of Commons Library, what cost-benefit analysis has actually been done in this case, and would it be put in front of the House so we might be able to see it?
At the end of the day, NPV is highly political because it assumes a discount rate, and what is the discount rate that one should choose? In the details, it talks about 3.5%, but the US will use 3.5% or 7%, which would vastly differentiate the figures. It goes on further, for the social time preference rate is 3.5%, but for 30 years. This deal is for 99 years, so how can the Government respond in a written parliamentary question that this
“represents good value for UK taxpayers”?
On what basis are they comparing that if there is no international comparison? We are talking only about domestic uses and for an accounting point.
As I come to my conclusions, possibly the scariest thing to me—I have tried to highlight it throughout the debate—which does seem to be falling on deaf ears, is article 13. I believe this treaty is legally bomb-proof. It looks sensible, and I am no legal expert as I have attested to, but it seems to stand the test of time. That means when article 13 says explicitly that in 99 years Mauritius can say no and just take control, that is a big worry. We have heard from many Government MPs how it secures the long-term aspirations of this country for a period of 99 years. When I mentioned that, several Government MPs scoffed. But is it not the duty of this House to provide not only for the next generation, but the rest of time for our country, in the best interests of our country? After listening to all the arguments that have been made about how essential the base is, the very fact that Mauritius could pull the base is a very scary prospect. There is, of course, a caveat: the right of first refusal. But if China decides to do a deal with Mauritius at exorbitant cost, we are over a barrel and the British taxpayer must fork out yet again to guarantee our security. Mauritius has been given a golden ticket, and it knows it.
Beyond the sovereignty and cost, my biggest concern is that we are outsourcing decision -making for our children and our children’s children. That is the modus operandi of this Government—we need only look at the borrowing in the Budget to see how they borrow on the backs of future children. Pushing this decision out for 99 years is not security for now; it will help, but it creates a far bigger problem in 100 years’ time. If the Government want to give away our islands, they should be open and transparent about how and why.
The biggest thing is that we have not even had our day in court. That is what most troubles the British public. I think that the British public would be reasonable if a court found against us—they would happily say, “We follow the rule of law”—but the Government will not even try that. They say that there is a risk. As has been said, this has been going on for years, and still we are looking at a treaty to sign it off.
That inevitably poses final questions about what happens with Gibraltar, the Falklands and Cyprus. The Minister is correct to point out that there are differences, but the biggest fundamental problem that the Government have in arguing to the British people and the people of the Falklands is about understanding. If this House cannot understand the legal concepts of the places where we are likely to fight these causes, how can we expect the public to do so? When it comes to delivering comms to the UK public, that is what they need to understand.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
The Minister seems to be arguing about exactly how much it will cost. My constituents just see that he is giving away British territory and paying rent for it, which is completely unacceptable to them. He talks about how it is good for the global south, because they agree with it; good for other countries, because they agree with it; and good for Mauritius, because it is getting extra money. What about the British people that he, as a British Minister, is here to represent? What are they getting for this deal? They are losing territory and it is costing them money.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
Is my right hon. Friend aware of any of our allies who think that the insecure and expensive leasehold deal that we have now is better than the freehold sovereignty and security that we had before?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
My right hon. Friend is making a great speech. She says that this is a reckless giving away of British money. Unlike many of the other things we have had to watch Labour do, such as take the winter fuel allowance away from old people and heavily tax charities, hospices and others, this cannot be undone. Once the money is given away to a foreign country, there is nothing that any future Government can do to claim it back easily.
Employer National Insurance Contributions: Economic Growth
I am not particularly interested in who the Minister is backing in the deputy leadership contest, but I welcome him to his place. Lebanese Please is a fantastic restaurant in Weybridge, but like many hospitality companies, it is struggling with the impact of national insurance increases. If the partly new Treasury Front-Bench team are considering going for a team lunch, I recommend the warm hospitality of Runnymede and Weybridge, where they can see for themselves the impact that this horrid, harmful tax is having on local businesses across the country.
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
I congratulate the Minister on his promotion, but must say how sorry I am that his first outing has been to defend this load of nonsense. What does he say to the UK Statistics Authority and to the Government Actuary’s Department, which appear to have a very different view of the costing of this to the one that he has just outlined? Is it not the case that what he has said represents a load of accounting double-speak and is dubious, to put it politely and in parliamentary terms?
Diego Garcia Military Base and British Indian Ocean Territory Bill
The Minister is being extremely generous with his time. He was pressed earlier, but I would like to press him again on the social time discounting method. He should be able to give examples of big projects to which his Government have applied this method. Could he now do that and say why, for example, the right hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) did not use that method when she was calculating the cost of the 10-year affordable housing programme?