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Conservative and Unionist Party

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  1. ParliamentDavid Davis

    Lucy Letby Case: Conduct of Cheshire Police

    You rescued me from embarrassment, Madam Deputy Speaker. Let us forensically analyse the prosecution of this case, using as a reference proper police procedure, prosecutorial standards, medical murder investigation guidelines, CPS guidance, the evidence from the Thirlwall inquiry and the considered critiques from these two experienced police officers. The neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester hospital was failing. Its medical management was at best inadequate and at worst appalling. Indeed, a week after Letby was suspended, the unit was downgraded and prevented from taking any more very seriously ill babies. Before the police investigation, numerous reviews looked at the Countess of Chester and found no evidence of criminal activity. The most salient was by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, which found no criminal events, but did identify numerous shortcomings in medical care at the hospital. Cheshire police ignored that, and the jury was never informed of it. Dr Watts notes, as did the assistant chief constable, that the royal college report “raised significant concerns about systemic failings…Its exclusion from court…meant alternative explanations were suppressed.” Let us also remember that this was a neonatal unit with no neonatal specialist consultants, only general paediatricians. Furthermore, the trust had dismissed all the experienced advanced neonatal nurse practitioners to save money. There was a 20% staffing shortfall. Doctors did ward rounds twice a week, rather than twice a day. We can think of the fragility of these children, yet they only got seen twice a week. There were outbreaks of multiple antibiotic-resistant infections. Pseudomonas aeruginosa, MRSA and C. difficile bacteria were all detected in the hospital. Sewage was dripping from the ceilings. Doctors followed poor counter-infection processes. The mother of triplets who moved to Liverpool women’s hospital “noticed a different level of cleanliness compared to the Countess of Chester…There were clear hygiene protocols…we were told to wash our hands before entering the Unit and then again before entering the room”, which was not the case at the Countess of Chester. It is also notable that there were 12 stillbirths in hospital at the same time as the spike in neonatal deaths—stillbirths that Lucy Letby was nowhere near. That was also ignored by Cheshire police. Why did Cheshire police decide Letby was responsible? Initially, there was no intention to launch any criminal investigation, but on 15 May 2017, that all changed. After a single meeting with two consultants—Dr Stephen Brearey and Dr Ravi Jayaram—from the Countess of Chester, Letby was explicitly identified as the focus of suspicion. Dr Watts states that “in this meeting, the language of this very experienced, very senior detective” from the Cheshire police force “moved from a measured, rational professional tone to…inappropriately emotional.” He cites the senior Cheshire police detective as saying: “I can’t describe how powerful it was…I just felt for those professionals there….I think we all owe them.” Dr Watts observes that “within 24 hours” of that meeting, Operation Hummingbird—the name of the Letby operation—was “up and running”. Within three days, news of the investigation into a potential murder at the Countess of Chester was in the national press. This investigation was initiated by a single meeting with consultants who had themselves been involved in seriously inadequate care of babies. The consultants who pointed the finger at Letby were Dr Stephen Brearey, Dr John Gibbs, Dr Ravi Jayaram and another doctor, who was anonymised for the court’s own reasons. They had all demonstrated poor care. One had wrongly punctured a baby’s liver. That baby later died. One was found by a coroner to be responsible for the death of a child after a breathing tube was inserted into the oesophagus, rather than the trachea—in other words, into the gullet, rather than the windpipe. One pushed an endotracheal tube into a baby’s lung, leaving the other collapsed. That baby later died. One clearly misled the jury by claiming that he had “virtually caught” Letby doing nothing as a baby collapsed in front of her—evidence that his own emails disproved. Those doctors could very well have contributed to the spikes in deaths attributed to Letby. Dr Watts poses an important question: “Where was the decision not to treat the doctors as suspects, or the other nurses, or the cleaners?” Justice demands that the police look at everyone. It does not permit them to fixate on one individual and build a case solely around them. Dr Watts makes it plain that that is not just a moral requirement; it is the law. Section 23(1)(a) of the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 requires “that where a criminal investigation is conducted all reasonable steps are taken for the purposes of the investigation and, in particular, all reasonable lines of inquiry are pursued”. Paragraph 3.5 of the code of practice under that Act states: “In conducting an investigation, the investigator should pursue all reasonable lines of inquiry, whether these point towards or away from the suspect.” The Cheshire police did not follow the letter of the law or best professional practice. Dr Watts states that CPS guidelines and police guidance on the investigation of death in healthcare settings “require that decisions in ‘Sensitive, Serious and Complex’ cases are referred to the CPS Serious Crime and Counter Terrorism Division.” Remember that Dr Watts is the country’s expert in this area. He says: “It appears self-evident that this case falls into all the relevant categories of Sensitivity, Seriousness and Complexity”, but the regional CPS unit, Merseyside and Cheshire, “made the charging decisions in this case.” The requirement is made plain in the current version of the CPS referrals, approvals and notifications guidance, which states in terms that “homicide allegations involving…four or more victims and…medical authorities” should be passed on to the special crime and counter-terrorism division, which is a unit in London that specialises in complicated cases. Plainly, the Cheshire police believed that there were a lot more than four victims, so this case should have automatically gone to the special crime and counter-terrorism division. The failure to refer the case meant that proper safeguards and specialist scrutiny by independent lawyers, who had not been closely associated with the investigating team, were never implemented. That is very important. It is notable that when officers in the special crime and counter-terrorism division were involved earlier this year after the Cheshire police had put 11 additional charges to them, they turned them down flat. The special crime and counter-terrorism division stated that “the evidential test was not met in any of those cases.” After failing to refer the case to the correct CPS unit, Cheshire police then failed to listen to explicit guidance from the National Crime Agency. Again, Dr Watts points out: “On 26 May 2017, an email record indicates that the NCA…advised” Cheshire police “to appoint a panel of relevant experts; they clearly defined the disciplines and provided a comprehensive list. They were: Forensic & Neonatal Pathologists, Forensic Toxicologist and/or Clinical Pharmacologist, a Nurse with experience of special baby units, a medical expert with experience of the working practices on a special unit for neonates, an Obstetrician, and experts to review the medical statistics.” The advice was national best practice, but Cheshire police ignored it. On 28 June 2017, the NCA advisers followed up with a list of potential experts who could fill those posts. Cheshire police blatantly ignored that, too. Instead of drawing up a multidisciplinary panel, Dr Watts states, “Operation Hummingbird…built its entire medical case around one expert.” That so-called expert was Dr Dewi Evans. The warning signs were there before the trial started. Dr Watts believes that “Cheshire police were clutching at straws to find an expert, then very quickly and uncritically took a lifeline offered by Evans”. Evans ran a business providing “expert medical advice” in court cases for a high fee. We can identify at least £80,000 paid to him for the Letby case, but the rest is concealed, and the true total is likely many times higher. Evans stated: “This was my extra money, which helped keep my daughter in horses and my son in cars.” That was his motivation. He approached the NCA after reading about the case and called it “my kind of case”. Dr Watts points out that the “‘back door’ approach by an alleged expert who is clearly looking for work…should have sounded warning bells for the” senior investigating officer “and the investigating team”. Having practised as an expert witness for decades, Evans boasted he had “never lost” a case. That is not the mindset of a neutral expert; it is the language of someone who tailors his evidence to suit the prosecution’s case. This was clearly demonstrated when another very senior judge took the extraordinary step of writing to the presiding judge in the Letby case, alerting him to Evans’s failings in a previous case. I think the House should understand quite how unusual it is for a judge to take that step. Lord Justice Jackson described Evans’s evidence as “worthless”, stating that he “makes no effort to provide a balanced opinion”, and his “approach amounts to a breach of proper professional conduct”. I think that, later on, he also called it tendentious—terrifying when a single opinion will condemn a young woman to life in prison. When Cheshire police asked Evans if it should follow NCA guidance and seek other expert witnesses, he said: “I do not think it’s necessary to consider additional expert opinion at this stage.” He wouldn’t, of course. Evans was appointed as both the police adviser and the expert witness in the trial. Stuart Clifton states: “It was illogical to allow Evans to both advise and be the principal prosecution witness as there is a clear conflict of interest.” If this was not warning enough to Cheshire police, it should have set alarm bells ringing when Evans declared, after just 10 minutes of reviewing the case notes, that he suspected there was “foul play”. Dr Watts states: “Evans was not independently selected but came forward himself” and “validators used to assess his opinions were themselves selected without adequate independence…by Evans himself”. What is more, Stuart Clifton said that it was “completely illogical to allow other experts…to view the findings of Evans, since experts are expected to give evidence of their” findings “and not be corrupted by others”. Another prosecution expert, Professor Hindmarsh, was dismissed from his post as an honorary consultant at Great Ormond Street hospital before—just before—he gave evidence at the trial. During the trial, while he was giving evidence, he faced a General Medical Council investigation for failures of expertise and posing a risk to his patients: an expert witness chastised for a failure of expertise. The jury knew nothing of that. Another prosecution expert, Dr Bohin, reviewed Evans’s work. She faced numerous complaints from her patients’ families and was later criticised for ignoring a key symptom in one of her patients. These are the supposed experts that Cheshire police and the CPS chose, rather than a panel of independent experts from all relevant disciplines, as the NCA had advised. Three times Cheshire police’s due diligence failed—if, indeed, they attempted it at all. Crucial to the case against Letby was the infamous shift table presented as evidence that she was on duty for all the incidents when babies collapsed or died. Over a period of 13 months, there were 17 deaths—far more than the “normal” expected three or four deaths. Stuart Clifton states: “Missing from the chart used at trial are deaths which occurred whilst Letby was not on duty or those where adverse events took place whilst off duty”. Cheshire police, which compiled the table, chose to highlight only the shifts during which Letby was present, disregarding similar events when she was not. The seven deaths charged as murders were, in effect, selected because she happened to be on duty. As Stuart Clifton bluntly puts it: “Evans cherry picked the cases to match Letby’s shifts and Police used this in their chart to reflect her presence at those events highlighted by Evans. One has to wonder just how he settled on those children where Letby was present.” Any qualified statistician could have pointed that out to Cheshire police. In fact, one did. In April 2018, a police officer approached one of the country’s leading statisticians, Professor Jane Hutton, asking her to put a figure on the likelihood of a nurse being on duty during “all the deaths/collapses” in the unit. It is almost a rerun of the Sally Clark argument. Cheshire police had signed a consultancy agreement with Professor Hutton. Professor Hutton warned them that its whole approach was wrong. The police then told her: “The prosecutor...has instructed us not to pursue this avenue any further.” She challenges them and the prosecutor tells them to sack it. That falls in direct contravention of part 3.3 of the “Code for Crown Prosecutors”, which states: “Prosecutors cannot direct the police or other investigators.” Dr Watts added: “This occurrence is particularly egregious...it is...not appropriate for the CPS to deter the police from acquiring evidence that may be relevant and available.” Dr Watts goes on to say that the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 “is binding upon the CPS to the same extent as the police, for the CPS to Instruct the police to ignore potentially relevant evidence would clearly be a breach of the CPIA”. But neither the defence nor the jury were told of Professor Hutton’s explicit warnings to the police. That is unsurprising really, because it obliterated the prosecution’s statistical argument—the foundation of their entire case. Professor Hutton believes the statistical errors are “similar to those in the Sally Clark case but worse.” I wrote to the chief constable about how those bogus statistics had been compiled. He refused to answer any of the questions I had raised and said he would “not be providing any further detail or engaging in ongoing correspondence”. So much for transparency and welcoming challenge. That refusal to answer questions from a Member of Parliament sits uneasily alongside his department’s extraordinary public relations campaign, which at the very least invaded the privacy rights of Letby’s parents.

    Hansard source
  2. ParliamentDavid Davis

    Lucy Letby Case: Conduct of Cheshire Police

    I thank my right hon. Friend for her point. However, in many ways the reason the Lucy Letby case is so important—over and above the fact that it is a miscarriage of justice—is that it highlights weaknesses in the appeal procedure and the procedure for selecting and managing experts. I am afraid that it also demonstrates that the regulations put in place by the CPIA and other Acts of Parliament were not followed in this case, and that is one of the fundamental problems today. I will come back to some of the solutions in a moment, but that is the central difficulty. Finally, there is the question of how a police force should properly handle such complex cases, which comes back to the issue of checking that my right hon. Friend quite rightly raises. Dr Watts is clear: “Significant investigations such as Op Hummingbird should be subject to rigorous review by independent detectives, typically from an independent police force, and best practice indicates that the officers conducting the review should be unknown to members of the investigation team.” If such a review had been in place, it is unlikely that any of the breaches I have talked about so far would actually have happened. I do not have time in this debate—I have had 20 minutes already—to list every egregious failure by Cheshire police, but given the Netflix documentary broadcast a little while ago, I want to pick up on the way the police treated Letby herself. They arrested Lucy Letby three times, claiming it was necessary for questioning, despite her freely volunteering to come in for questioning. Dr Watts—an assistant chief constable, let us remember—said: “That is completely wrong”. It is extraordinary that this unthreatening young girl was marched in in handcuffs, mirroring the way American authorities try to influence public opinion against suspects when they are perp walked to court. As Dr Watts said: “The intelligence they had about Lucy was that she was nonviolent. There was absolutely no justification…for her to be handcuffed” on those occasions. Letby was also accused in court of lying about being arrested in her pyjamas, but the recent Netflix documentary proves that she was telling the truth. It is astonishing that the police officers in the court, who knew how she was dressed when she was arrested, did not intervene with the prosecutors to tell them that they had got it wrong, and instead left the jury to believe that Lucy was lying about something when she was plainly telling the truth. Frankly, it is astounding the lengths that Cheshire police was willing to go to in order to manage its own public relations—sometimes, I think, at the cost of achieving justice. So there we have it. Despite the warning signs of the Sally Clark case, we see that Cheshire police has either ignored or broken the rules, disregarding relevant safeguards time and again. It failed to pursue alternative lines of inquiry; failed to refer the case to the appropriate specialist authorities; failed to conduct proper due diligence on the appointment of key expert witnesses; failed to engage with real experts about complex statistical evidence, and failed to correctly inform the jury of that fact; and failed on several occasions to disclose critical material to the defence. On the evidence before us, there have been clear and serious departures from statutory guidance and multiple deviations from best professional practice. Because of the way the case was handled, I recommend that the police should provide Letby’s defence team with a whole series of documentation. Because of time, I will publish the full list online, but it should include: the senior investigating officer’s policy books and decision books; the records of identified lines of inquiry; logs kept by functional managers; and minutes of all meetings held, from the team meetings right up to the gold co-ordination meetings. That would at least start to demonstrate what went wrong here. I should tell the Minister that irrespective of how Cheshire police responds, I shall be writing to the Director of Public Prosecutions about these issues and asking him to review the behaviour of both the CPS and the police.

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  3. ParliamentDavid Davis

    Lucy Letby Case: Conduct of Cheshire Police

    I am conscious that I have denied the Minister much time to respond—that was because I do not think she has much scope for a response—but I want to place one thought with her. One reason why we are having the debate is because Members of Parliament cannot make applications to the IOPC; only victims can do so. I think that is a flaw in the law. My argument today is that we have not followed the guidelines, and the best way to deal with that is through an expert mechanism such as the IOPC. When she goes away today, will she take with her the thought that we might fine-tune the law on that point?

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  4. ParliamentCharlie Dewhirst

    Support for Motorists

    10. What recent steps her Department has taken to support motorists.

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  5. ParliamentCharlie Dewhirst

    Support for Motorists

    Anyone who has been to the pumps in the last couple of weeks will have felt the pain of price rises. I do not blame the Secretary of State for that—obviously, international events have taken over—but can she guarantee the House that there will be no further rise in fuel duty for the remainder of this calendar year?

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  6. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    Business of the House

    I will get everybody in, but may I remind Members that business questions should pertain to the business of the House, and that it is customary to ask the Leader of the House to grant Government time for a debate or a statement? We appear to have had a run of questions to which the business has not really been that relevant.

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  7. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    National Savings & Investments

    I call the shadow Minister.

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  8. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    National Savings & Investments

    I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

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  9. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    National Savings & Investments

    I thank the Minister for his statement and for his very thorough responses.

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  10. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    Resident Doctors: Industrial Action

    I call the shadow Secretary of State.

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  11. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    Resident Doctors: Industrial Action

    I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

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  12. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    Resident Doctors: Industrial Action

    I call the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee.

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  13. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    Coastal Erosion

    We now come to the Select Committee statement on behalf of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee. Jenny Riddell-Carpenter will speak for up to 10 minutes, during which there will be no interventions. At the conclusion of her statement, I will call Members to ask questions on the subject of the statement. These must be questions, not full speeches. I emphasise that questions should be directed to the Select Committee Member, and not the Government Minister. Front Benchers may take part in questioning.

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  14. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    Coastal Erosion

    I thank the hon. Lady, the member of the Select Committee, for doing an excellent job this afternoon.

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  15. ParliamentCaroline Nokes

    Palliative Care

    We now come to the second Select Committee statement, on behalf of the Health and Social Care Committee. Layla Moran will speak for up to 10 minutes, during which there will be no interventions. At the conclusion of her statement, Members may be called to ask questions on the subject of the statement, and they must be questions, not speeches. Front Benchers may take part in the questioning.

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  16. ParliamentBob Blackman

    Topical Questions

    T3. Yesterday came the welcome news that Queensbury station, in my constituency, is one of five new stations that will be considered for step-free access. That makes almost the entire Jubilee line step-free, except for Stanmore station, which Transport for London classifies as step-free, even though my residents face 49 steps on the main staircase, 10 at the side and access via a very steep ramp from the car park, which even a Paralympian cannot manage. Could the Minister responding to this afternoon’s debate agree to a new legal definition of “step-free access”?

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  17. ParliamentBob Blackman

    Business of the House

    I thank the Leader of the House for announcing the business for the two weeks after Easter. I note that yesterday the House rose early when the Government business finished. We could have had a three-hour debate in Backbench Business time if that had been made available. I also note that we are not being given any time in the week after Easter, other than half a day on the Monday when we come back. In Westminster Hall, the debates on Tuesday 14 April will be on hidden credit liabilities and the role of the Financial Conduct Authority. On Thursday 16 April, there will be a Select Committee statement from the Science, Innovation and Technology Committee, followed by debates on the housing needs of young people and the NHS federated data platform. On Tuesday 21 April, there will be a debate on the merits of the independent national revision body on overseeing wheelchair provision. On Thursday 23 April, there will be a debate on access to education and training for young adult carers, followed by a debate on gambling advertising. I remind the House that Government Parliamentary Private Secretaries should not put in bids to the Backbench Business Committee. I am aware that the hon. Member for Dudley (Sonia Kumar) became a PPS after she submitted her bid, and I am grateful to her for arranging for someone else to take on her debate. In addition, may I urge the House to respond to the Modernisation Committee’s consultation on Backbench Business time and petitions? We had a lively debate on potholes in Transport questions. We have all had the dreadful experience of having a tyre go when driving over a pothole. The pothole is reported and the workforce from the council come round, pour some pitch into it and roll it, but then it rains and the pitch is washed away. In Harrow, we have a unique solution to that. We have a Pothole Pro—affectionately known as Pothole Pete—that recycles the surface and cements a layer to ensure that it cannot be removed. That means that it is far more efficient and effective. Will the Leader of the House commend this to councils up and down the country?

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  18. ParliamentBen Obese-Jecty

    A14 Environmental Mitigation: Huntingdon

    8. Whether she has reviewed with Cabinet colleagues the status of land used for environmental mitigation along the A14 in Huntingdon constituency.

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  19. ParliamentBen Obese-Jecty

    A14 Environmental Mitigation: Huntingdon

    I thank the Minister for his response the other day to my written question, which made clear that the trees would be replanted alongside the A14. I have surveyed that area in recent weeks, and it is real mess. The land has simply not been maintained after the environmental land-management schemes were put in place, so it is reassuring to hear that the trees will be replaced. However, there are other problems with some of the schemes: some of the buildings that were compulsorily purchased have not been maintained and have become dilapidated, National Highways is ransoming access to the land to local developers by charging a 30% shared value increase, just so that developers can gain access to the A14, and we have dangerous at-grade junctions. Will the Minister meet me to discuss some of the problems that we have with access to the A14 in Huntingdonshire, so that my constituents can be reassured that we are working hard to ensure that that road works as it should?

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  20. ParliamentBen Obese-Jecty

    Local Government Reorganisation

    As the Minister well knows, the consultation for local government reorganisation in Cambridgeshire closes today, and I urge all my constituents to have their say and ensure that they fill that out by midnight tonight. The Minister knows my feelings clearly about option E and Huntingdonshire unitary authority because she sat through my half-hour debate on the topic, but can she reassure my residents that the feedback given will be taken on board? At the moment, there is a real fear locally that Huntingdonshire will be split in two, and that the identity and character of our historic county will be lost forever in favour of the northern half of Huntingdonshire being merged with Peterborough in option D. Option E is very much the option that the district council wants to go for. Can she reassure me that Huntingdonshire will not be split in two?

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  21. ParliamentAndrew Griffith

    Local Government Reorganisation

    Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your dispensation to speak on behalf of my constituents. Not once in six years in this House have my constituents written to me saying that we need to cleave West Sussex in two, with two educational catchment areas, two different highways authorities, two social care services and two expensive town halls and council offices. Will the Minister, at this late stage, listen to my constituents, reject the proposals put forward by Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Greens to cleave our ancient county in two, and join me in saving West Sussex?

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  22. ParliamentSteve Barclay

    Victims and Courts Bill

    The Minister gives the fact that she needs to consult as a reason for turning down the Lords amendments. Is the usual approach not to consult before bringing the legislation, not to bring the legislation then consult afterwards?

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  23. ParliamentSteve Barclay

    Victims and Courts Bill

    It would be easy for anyone watching the proceedings, with not many Members in the Chamber to discuss these Lords amendments, to think this is about some technical issue or minor point of debate, but the votes today really do matter. They matter to victims, who are currently charged often thousands of pounds for the transcripts of the court hearings in which they were involved. They matter for the transparency and openness of our legal system. They also matter to the public, because on this very issue over 200,000 people signed a public petition, which was debated in Westminster Hall on Monday this week. Although people may think these are just Lords amendments, this is an important set of votes. I gently say to the Minister that her speech did sound a bit like an episode of “Yes Minister” in that her remarks were, “I fully support giving victims more rights, and that is why today I’m going to vote against every one of the amendments to do so.” As she was speaking, I wrote down some of her phrases. She said that this is “a Bill for victims”, as if the amendments made in the Lords are not meant to empower victims, when they clearly are. She said that she wants to “go further”. It is no wonder her own colleague, the hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), said she was “confused”, and she was not the only one confused by a Minister saying that she wants to go further by voting against amendments that would enable us to go further. The Minister justifies that inconsistency by saying she needs to consult more, including with the judiciary, as if the Government have been ambushed by their own legislation. They control the timing of this Bill and they brought it to the House, but then they say, “Oh, actually, the timing’s not right, and we need more time to consult.” They themselves are legislating and they control the time, so if they needed to consult, they could have done that in a timely fashion. The Minister said she accepts the challenge of the pressure that the 14-day period puts people under, especially given the interplay with the 28-day window for the unduly lenient sentence scheme. Just to explain that in lay terms, if people want to appeal a sentence that they feel is unduly lenient, they have to do so within 28 days. However, if they cannot get access to the transcript in a timely fashion, their ability to do that is severely constrained. The Government control the legislation and its timing of its introduction, yet they are going to ask Labour Members to vote against these amendments. Is it any wonder they keep U-turning, because they are saying one thing and then they are going to vote to do the opposite today on the basis that at some point in the future they may come round to doing what they say they want to do at the moment? The Minister says that more cannot be done now, pointing to reasons of technical issues and constraints, while also saying that the Government are overcoming those constraints in relation to sentencing remarks. Again, there is no “can do”. There are lots of things in a court bundle ahead of a court hearing—witness statements, and a huge amount of other documentation—and vastly more information could be shared with victims in a timely way, yet such discussions do not seem to have taken place. It is no wonder that my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater (Sir Ashley Fox) called what we are getting instead “waffle”. We have been told we are going to have guidance, work on awareness and—that Government catch-all—a code, as if that is a replacement for actually giving victims access to the transcripts they want. The crux of the issue is that the Government are introducing this legislation, but those in the Lords have quite rightly scrutinised it and seen that there are constraints on the timescales. The Government do not dispute that; they accept that there is a good case for victims to have more access to transcripts. Indeed, on Monday in Westminster Hall, the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Rother Valley (Jake Richards), said: “There is an issue of transparency regarding court transcripts”.—[Official Report, 23 March 2026; Vol. 783, c. 39WH.] Is it not therefore bizarre that the Government will ask their own Back Benchers to vote against doing something about what they accept is a real issue for victims of crime?

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  24. ParliamentSteve Barclay

    Victims and Courts Bill

    The point I was highlighting was the inherent contradictions in the Minister’s remarks. Even now, in her summing up, she has said that the Government are going to go further in 2027, but in her opening remarks she said that they cannot go further because there are technical impediments. The point is that there are inherent contradictions in the Government’s narrative.

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  25. ParliamentSteve Barclay

  26. ParliamentSir Julian Smith

    Proposed Visitor Levy

    UKHospitality talks about this tax being “the wrong policy at the worst time”. One of my worries is that entrepreneurs in the tourist industry in North Yorkshire and elsewhere are on their knees due to post-covid issues, national insurance, rates and a whole range of factors. Would my right hon. Friend agree that, whatever the merits of this policy, the levy must be paused until those businesses are back on their feet and start investing again?

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  27. ParliamentSir Julian Smith

    Proposed Visitor Levy

    I am a big supporter of the hon. Lady, and I do not want to attack her personally, but we have a big issue in York and North Yorkshire. The Mayor is proposing this tax, which will clobber my constituents’ businesses in North Yorkshire. It may be a benefit for York, but it will cause a massive problem for rural North Yorkshire.

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  28. ParliamentSir Julian Smith

    Good Friday Agreement

    May I add to the tributes paid to the Table Clerk? Among all the advice he has given in the last 40 years, he gave particularly good advice on the meaningful vote, which left many of us traumatised, but he developed great expertise in that. As we celebrate the Good Friday agreement, may I urge the Secretary of State to be crystal clear to the Northern Ireland Assembly and Northern Ireland politicians that there will be less money coming from GB, so there needs to be revenue raising and a sole focus on economic growth for the next Session of the Northern Ireland Assembly?

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  29. ParliamentSir Julian Lewis

    Foreign Financial Influence and Interference: UK Politics

    I think the Government are very wise to try to close the potential loophole that somebody might make a giant donation between today and the conclusion of the legislative process, but I can think of at least one other rather glaring loophole, which hopefully the Secretary of State has also considered. If somebody is an elector living abroad, he will be limited to £100,000 per donation, but what about other members of his close family to whom he could channel indefinite numbers of packages of £100,000 apiece? What is to stop them from making similar donations? Has the Secretary of State considered how the limit will work in practice?

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  30. ParliamentSir John Hayes

    Nuclear Test Veterans

    I am extremely grateful to the hon. Lady for the warm words that she offered. She gave me too much praise—this is a team effort. She is absolutely right to say that the veterans deserve the most praise. Our friendship in this place was formed through our joint commitment to those veterans and our shared outrage that, over successive Governments and for decades, information was withheld, withdrawn or even distorted. I know she will speak more about that in the short time we have today, but I hope that we get a longer debate. This matter deserves that sort of scrutiny from people from across this Chamber.

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  31. ParliamentSir John Hayes

    Nuclear Test Veterans

    I rise principally so that the Minister can compose herself—her emotion and her commitment are evident. I have stood at the Dispatch Box over 19 years on both sides of this Chamber, and I know what it is like to be a Minister. I simply say to her, echoing the call of the hon. Member for Salford (Rebecca Long Bailey), that this is a real opportunity. It is an opportunity to right a wrong. The Minister would stand proud, and she would do the Government proud, but, most importantly, she will do the veterans and the country proud, if she can right that wrong.

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  32. ParliamentSir John Hayes

    Nuclear Test Veterans

    If will intervene again, if that would be helpful.

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  33. ParliamentSir John Hayes

    Nuclear Test Veterans

    I feel I am doing a service to the Government this afternoon. It is absolutely right that specific answers are given to the questions that were posed by the hon. Member for Salford (Rebecca Long Bailey), who I congratulate on securing the debate. The key thing is that we have met successive Ministers—I first met the now Lord Beamish when he was a Member of this House—and they were, generally speaking, sympathetic, but they were not always given the information. In truth, had it not been for David Cameron, who gave the money to the charity when I was at the Cabinet Office, and Boris Johnson, who met my friend the hon. Member for Salford—she is not technically my hon. Friend but she is my friend—in Downing Street, we would not have got the medal, so it sometimes does take those personal interventions. From what the Minister has said already, I am sure that she is more than capable of cutting through the bureaucracy, the red tape and the obfuscation, in order to get to the heart of the matter.

    Hansard source
  34. ParliamentSir James Cleverly

    Foreign Financial Influence and Interference: UK Politics

    I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. I echo his thanks to Mr Rycroft for the work that he has done on a very important report. We began work in this area through the defending democracy taskforce, and I am glad to see the Minister for Security in his place to highlight the important link between the work of this report and the work that he does. There should be no party political divide when it comes to protecting the integrity of our democracy, and there is a great deal in the report that my party instinctively agrees with. However, the process falls far short of what this House should expect. The 50-page Rycroft review was published just 20 minutes before Prime Ministers questions, and only five minutes before one of the Secretary of State’s Ministers was hosting a meeting to which I was invited about local government reorganisation, making it very difficult for me to read the detail of the report—[Interruption.] That made it very difficult for me to read the detail of an incredibly important report which, as I said, contains much with which we instinctively agree. This is not just poor procedure; it means that it is harder for the Opposition to scrutinise the actions of the Government properly, particularly in light of the fact that many of the proposals in the report are being initiated immediately. Sadly, this follows a pattern of behaviour by this Government. The Representation of the People Bill has already been through Second Reading and is in Committee, yet today is the first time we are seeing important elements of a report that goes to the heart of that legislation. Foreign interference is growing and it demands a coherent response—a cross-party response—and yet this Government choose to legislate first and make announcements later. They brought forward the Representation of the People Bill before the Rycroft review had reported; they asked the House to scrutinise legislation that was full of holes, as the Secretary of State is now announcing from the Dispatch Box. This is not good process. My comments are not about process for process’s sake, but about ensuring that unforeseen or bad outcomes are avoided, while protecting what needs to be protected. Now we are told that major changes—fundamental changes—on donations, enforcement and transparency are being rushed into a Bill late in its passage, without proper consultation, scrutiny or time. That is not the way to ensure that cross-party policy is successfully implemented. It is right that the Secretary of State and the Government want to send a clear message that they take this issue seriously, and we echo that desire, but this is not the way to do it. Announcing Government action by press release, then filling in the details later, undermines the important work at the heart of the report. Russia’s aggression, Iran’s hostile activity on British soil, cyber-attacks on our institutions and Chinese state-based activity against us here in the UK make it incredibly important that we fight this fight together. Having these things bumped on the House, in the way that this report has been, does not help. The Secretary of State knows that the Conservatives are very much on the same side in relation to these matters, so I have a number of questions for him, which I will rattle through now. Why did he not wait for the Rycroft report before introducing the Representation of the People Bill in the House? Which of the review’s recommendations will require primary legislation and what time will be provided for that primary legislation? Will he commit to a full consultation with political parties and regulators before making any substantive amendments to the Bill going through the House? From an initial reading, the proposals on company donations will have a significant effect on legitimate domestic donations, so why are the Government proposing to treat domestic philanthropy as if it were something distasteful? Will the Secretary of State confirm that these changes will not be brought forward without proper consultation and consideration on the effects of legitimate domestic funding? Foreign interference is not the only threat to the integrity of our elections. We have seen evidence of breaches of electoral law, so what steps will the Secretary of State take to ensure that current legislation is enforced? Will the Secretary of State tighten the rules on foreign donations? He talked about devolved franchise changes in Wales and Scotland. What will he do to make sure that the forthcoming elections are protected? Finally, does he now accept that a very short pause to enable good faith interventions from my party and others would make this legislation stronger and send the signal that we are united as a democracy in this endeavour?

    Hansard source
  35. ParliamentSir Iain Duncan Smith

    Engagements

    The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is responsible for the rise of antisemitism worldwide and here in the United Kingdom; for inciting extreme Islamist attacks; for attacking dissident Iranians and British citizens; and for fomenting all sorts of hate marches. I have a very simple question. We are now at war with Iran, whether we like it or not, yet the reality is that we have never dealt with this organisation. This is not party political; will the Prime Minister make the decision now to proscribe this brutal bunch of thugs and send them packing, or arrest them and put them in jail right now? Get rid of this organisation.

    Hansard source
  36. ParliamentSir Edward Leigh

    Engagements

    On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I refer you to paragraph 22.9 of “Erskine May”, which stresses the primary importance of ministerial responsibility? We have to admit that Prime Ministers have always tried to dodge questions at Prime Minister’s Question Time, and you are not responsible for the answers that they give, but what we have seen in recent weeks is not just dodging questions; in reply to every question the Prime Minister is asked, he refers to the Leader of the Opposition’s policies. This is not Leader of the Opposition’s questions; it is Prime Minister’s questions.

    Hansard source
  37. ParliamentSir Ashley Fox

    Victims and Courts Bill

    I was slightly concerned when I heard the Minister say that she was “working at pace”—that is the phrase that Ministers in the Ministry of Defence have used about the defence investment plan, which has been repeatedly postponed and still is not with us—so can she give a more precise timescale? Does that mean sometime in the next 12 months?

    Hansard source
  38. ParliamentSir Ashley Fox

    Victims and Courts Bill

    The Minister will forgive me if I describe what she has announced as a whole load of waffle. The problem is that the 28-day period is too short, and she should consider some mechanism to allow it to be extended. Providing for training, notices and stuff on websites will not help many victims, who just need more time to consider their legal position. At this late stage, will she consider extending the 28-day period?

    Hansard source
  39. ParliamentSir Ashley Fox

    Victims and Courts Bill

    If there was no intention to delete the data, why did the Chair of the Justice Committee write to the Lord Chancellor asking him to stop the deletion of that data?

    Hansard source
  40. ParliamentSimon Hoare

    Foreign Financial Influence and Interference: UK Politics

    As a former elections policy Minister and member of the defending democracy taskforce, may I thank the Secretary of State for launching this inquiry? I also thank Philip Rycroft for his work; it was a pleasure to give evidence to him during that process. I welcome the spirit in which the Secretary of State has brought forward with urgency the changes that are so demonstrably required. May I ask him two direct questions? If amendments to reflect the Rycroft report are not to be tabled at Committee stage but on Report, will he ensure through the usual channels that the length of time devoted to Report stage reflects the fact that the House will be debating for the first time amendments to the legislation, which were not included on Second Reading? That speaks to the process point made by the shadow Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Braintree (Sir James Cleverly). If these important new rules are to be policed effectively and properly, there will clearly be additional demands on the Electoral Commission both in terms of power and resource. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of those needs and how will they be delivered in speedy time to mirror the urgency that is required?

    Hansard source